How a homosexual can be a Christian

1 Corinthians 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

2 Timothy 3:15
and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 3:

13Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? 14But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. “Do not fear what they fear[b]; do not be frightened.”[c]15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.

But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 17It is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

Titus 1:9
He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it. 

For me, it still feels great when someone tries to ask no matter how different his beliefs, principles, and set of values are. I do not know this guy personally and he used 6d60 as his pseudonym. He has been commenting too at Scaramouche‘s Blog entitled “The Emerald City“, under the post “Christianity doesn’t like me”. I posted his comments here in two parts. Let me just remind him that I am a Christian but I do not belong to any of Christian denominations he knew even from the following: the Catholic Church, the Protestant, the Born Again Christians, Church of Christ, Seventh Day Adventist , Bereans, Baptists, etc., because these groups have a lot of teachings very much contradictory to the Holy Bible.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Isaiah 29:13

The Lord says:
“These people come near to me with their mouth
and honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
Their worship of me
is made up only of rules taught by men
.

Let me just remind 6d60 that I belong to a different group of Christians. We affiliated in the Church of God being preached by the apostle Paul from the Holy Bible.

1 Corinthians 1

1Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,

2To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:

3Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

We were able to affiliate by following the full teachings and continue to do good works enumerated in the Holy Bible.

 

Matthew 28:18-20 (NIV)

20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

We are walking in the old path as set by God, written by Jeremiah; the old path is the path preached by Jesus Christ and by the Apostles.

Jeremiah 6:16
Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

We were baptized by those people who are able to teach us all the commandments set by God through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Acts 20:28
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Matthew 28:18-20 (NIV)

18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

We are registered as Members, Church of God International, under the leadership of Brother Eliseo Soriano. You can know more things about Bro Eli Soriano at the bottom of my post. We learned to worship God in spirit and in truth, and still learning more things about Him and about us.

John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

John 4:23
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

To the readers and to 6d60, you might feel that you know us and might use some verses against us but I tell you, we are way too different from the hypocritical Christians that you know. You will learn more about us, the true worshippers of the Father. You will be able to differentiate us true Christians from the pretending Christians as you go along reading this post. Moving on, let me answer 6d60 here starting by posting here the first part of his comments.

6d60 said, “…Oh, and by the way, elmantheman, I’m a guy, just so you know. I am curious, however, how one is to be both gay and Christian. For it says in Leviticus, and I quote, “Homosexual acts are an abomination to God.” -18:22. And, of course, “If a man has sex with another man, kill them both.” 20:13.

Now I of course find that extremely offenseive and must resist the urge to burn the copy of the Bible I just referred to. And I’m sure this must offend you, as a homosexual, at least as much, if not more than it does me. So tell me, how do you still keep a Christian faith? Do you just conveinently ignore that part? I mean, some of the Bible is open to interperitation, but there’s pretty much no way you could interperit that differently.

So if you do ignore those parts of the Bible, does that not shake the entire foundations of the Christian faith? If you know in your heart that that part isn’t right, don’t you start thinking some of, if not all the rest of it might not be right either? And then how do you know what to believe? Not to mention, of course, the bible’s numerous inconsistancies, continuity errors, other things that are grossly immoral, and just plain absurdities (I would point them out, but the work has been done for me at http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/).

I’m sorry this turned into a kind of mini-essay, but I am genuinely scientifically curious as to how a homosexual can be a Christian.”

But before I answer 6d60, about the homosexual Christian thing let me just say that how dare you insinuate that I will burn the Holy Bible! Mind you, I will not in anyway nor think of burning the bible. The Holy Bible is found offensive by the offenders who does not want corrections for their evil deeds. But those people who wanted correction reads more of the bible and listens in their hearts the good in it.

So, allow me to give a background first of what I am as a Christian, even my fellow Christians. Being a Christian, we make sure that what we say is written in the Holy Bible, because if not, we are not truly Christians. That is one of the description that separates us from the Christians pretenders that you know.

Deuteronomy 17:19
It is to be with him, and he is to read it all the days of his life so that he may learn to revere the LORD his God and follow carefully all the words of this law and these decrees

I will give more verses which I always remember when the integrity of the Holy Bible is being questioned.

Psalms 53:

1The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.”

Believing in the God, separates us from people who think otherwise and from their ways. I believe that a person needs to make a stand on whether he believes that there is a God or there is none. But no matter what one believes, in works and in words, they cannot hide it. Because their concept of God is reflected in their work and words. Some say they believe that there is a God, a good one, but if you can observe, you cannot see the concept of their God from their deeds, but the opposite of good, they are liars too.

Jude 1:4
For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

Can’t you see how useful and very truthful the Holy Bible is? It gives exact description of the subject. I do not even need to reflect on the verse by writing. But because you asked, then, I will try to write more of what I learned from it, but I cannot disregard my reference, the verses from the Holy Bible.

Imagine, people changed their views about God into something different! They now thought that immorality is a good thing. When they changed their perception about God, and even morals, this becomes their license to do what their hearts desire to do. If this perception did not originate from them, most likely, it came from their teachers, even friends who practice such immorality. Actually, it is obvious that they do not need God, they think that they are actually a god to themselves.

Jeremiah 23:14
And among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen something horrible: They commit adultery and live a lie. They strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that no one turns from his wickedness. They are all like Sodom to me; the people of Jerusalem are like Gomorrah.”

These kinds of new found and invented perception or human ideas have been passed on from one generation to generation in a form of bills, norms, religion, books, and the like.

Jude 1:
8In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings

10Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

11Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.

Some people have been open to talk about their new views in life and morality. Indeed, they are even proud to say and accept that they pollute their own bodies. They are even paid to do this things through media. But some people are not easily noticeable because their evil deeds are kept in their hearts, a sheep in wolf’s clothing. The Holy Bible calls them hypocrites.

Another perception came out from another set of people who believes in a false god, thus has another concept of their god which is reflected in their ways and actions, but then again they believe that they are doing the right thing!

Romans 1:

21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Have you noticed the above verses? God can see that a fool really believes in his heart that there is no God. No matter how hard he tries to hide that belief, God can see his heart. And no matter how obvious their foolishness, the more they profess that they are wise. The more they commit sin, the more they deny God who created them. They do not understand anymore that man is God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to be followed.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Jeremiah 6:16
This is what the LORD says: “Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls. But you said, ‘We will not walk in it.’

Do you think the fish is only caught through it’s mouth, not necessarily, it can also be caught from its actions too! No one can really hide. One defense against evil is to know how to detect one. Therefore, the Holy Bible has described what a fool is, his corresponding belief inside his heart, and the actions he commits. Yes, some people thinks that they are even gods to themselves, some skeptics feel the same way. But some would not admit, they play you by their tricky hands.

Psalms 53:

1The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.”

We cannot set aside the good news, when we talk about the Holy Bible. So, if 6d60 doesn’t want to talk about it let me just give him, even to the readers, an overview of what I learned as a Christian in terms of knowing who I am and seeing the reality that God has made known to us, Christians. God gave us this different outlook in life or perception, a sense of awareness that makes us see the world we live in as it is now and even before, and the things that are awaiting us.

1 Peter 4:

1Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin.

2As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.

3For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.

4They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you.

5But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

6For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

Even logic and plain analysis will dictate or will tell us that some people love to get drunk, they just do not admit that they are after drinking a lot. Some people deny that they are immoral because they believe that orgies makes them happy and they love doing it with other people who loves doing it with them too, especially, it is their belief, and will ask you to mind your own business!

Jude 1:

17But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold.

18They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.”

Some people do not know that other forms of idolatry are witchcraft, gluttony, love of money, etc.

Colossians 3:5
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

And these people who loves different kinds of idolatry agrees that these things are just normal things people commit.

Jude 1:
8In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings

10Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

They find Christians weird in a sense that we do not agree with them. Do you really deny what is truly happening on the earth that we are living now? Do you still believe that using the verses in the Holy Bible are illogical and irrelevant?

Isaiah 34:16
Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.

But where can we learn the obvious and the Truth at the same time? Where are these two contained or written? You will learn also that the Holy Bible should be read thoroughly, so that in one way or another you will understand in context that some verses does not necessarily ends with a word or sentence, it sometime and even most of the time needs to be read as a whole epistle or book, or even is joined by a reference from another book in the Holy Bible to get the full story, sense, and even the message. Especially, there are also a word, or two or even more that tells more than the whole chapter. That is how wonderful and important the Holy Bible is.

As a true Christian, we learned that we cannot set aside the Holy Bible as a reference on what the world is experiencing now, even before, it makes us wiser and focused on what is and what not. The wisdom said:

Proverbs 8:

34 Blessed is the man who listens to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.

35 For whoever finds me finds life
and receives favor from the LORD
.

36 But whoever fails to find me harms himself;
all who hate me love death.”

It keeps us away from the confusion brought by the errors and false humility of people who have kept hidden agendas in their hearts. As a Christian, the Holy Bible can teach us what is definitely good and righteous.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Deuteronomy 17:19
It is to be with him, and he is to read it all the days of his life so that he may learn to revere the LORD his God and follow carefully all the words of this law and these decrees

The Holy Bible teaches us how we should behave towards different people with an emphasis on not to discriminate.

Romans 2:
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
2Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?
4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will give to each person according to what he has done.”
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
11For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Even parents punish their children when they do not obey. The Holy Bible teaches about logic too! Some people used it unawares, if not, used it and made some twists to own it.

Let us talk about a basic value everyone has been taught about since childhood. Let us reflect on the value of obedience which no one can attest, even parents teach this value to their kids. Christians or not, we learn the value of obedience. But as Christians, we obey God, our Father.

Hebrews 12:

4In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons:
   “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
      and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
 6because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
      and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son.”[a]

 7Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? 8If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. 9Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! 10Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. 11No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

 12Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees. 13“Make level paths for your feet,”[b] so that the lame may not be disabled, but rather healed.

Warning Against Refusing God

 14Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. 16See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. 17Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears.  

I do not know about you, but Christians still use the Holy Bible as reference.

1 Samuel 15:

22 Samuel said, “Is the Lord pleased as much with burnt gifts as He is when He is obeyed? See, it is better to obey than to give gifts. It is better to listen than to give the fat of rams. 23 To go against what you are told is like the sin of witchcraft. Not to obey is like the sin of worshiping false gods. You have turned away from the Word of the Lord. So He has turned away from you being king.”

Well, that’s how the Holy Bible becomes important for salvation. It is scientific, and logical, just study it thoroughly. You will learn scientific attitude, even scientific method. It gives us the knowledge and ways on how to differentiate things. There are human ideas that are being corrected by the Holy Bible. There are human ideas that even the Holy Bible proves true. It teaches us to differentiate who’s who and what not so that both of us, gay or not, man or woman can be freed from sin and from the never ending question of “Who and what am I? What is my purpose on earth? Why am I created?

Exodus 33:13

If you are pleased with me, teach me your ways so I may know you and continue to find favor with you. Remember that this nation is your people.”

Now, let me answer the big question,

How CAN a homosexual be a Christian?

Of course, my understanding of myself did not come from my own human ideas and understanding. I believe God opened my eyes with the help of Bro Eli Soriano. Not just that part of my body but the spiritual eyes that can see the Truth. MAY I give you some reference to begin with because I am not worthy of explaining what the real score the Holy Bible revealed to the the Most Sensible Preacher of our Time, Bro Eliseo Soriano.

A Reference

Can a Homosexual Make it to Heaven?

Biblically Addressing the Concerns of a Sexually Addicted Reader

The harmonious relationship of Master and servant.

Ignorant of his own ignorance

From a Sinner’s Guide to the Analysis of a Purpose Driven life… and more!

The Power of Christianity is not by Force but by Peace

Lust… Money… Idol Worship… and More!

The Biblical Difference Between a Homosexual and a Sodomite

As for my experience, being a gay or a homosexual, I know deep within me that having a homosexual act is not good. But having the appearance, the feelings, of a gay is a natural thing to have if you are a gay! If we follow what “nature” tells us, we cannot change things that is inherent or inborn . No matter how many times you change the color of your hair or have a tan, it is just a matter of time and it will change back the way it is. Except of course for those physical handicaps or abnormalities that the doctors can clip and tuck, cut and clip. Some homosexuals even tried to change their physical appearance by going to a gym or even took injections to make their body bulky. But to no avail, though their appearance became more manly, or ladylike, their sexual preference remained. They are still left with their desire to have sexual affairs with their same sex, partners.

Having recognized the reality of having born gay, it is but logical to accept that we cannot change our preference for a partner, except if you are forced into it. Similarly, men who says that they are perfectly normal and heterosexual, you cannot forced them to change sexual preference. But what do you do when a heterosexual person changes his sexual preference, now that he or she has experienced sex with his or her opposite sex?

Leviticus 18:

22 ” ‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

23 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 ” ‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.

26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled.

28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

29 ” ‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.’ “

Are we having difficulties understanding what a homosexual is? Do we both understand that being a homosexual is having a sexual intercourse with the same gender while being gay is being effeminate? There are men who prefer having a sexual relationship with women, but there came a time that he realized that he finds it more appealing to have sexual activity with the same gender, but at the end still proudly calls himself a heterosexual or a real man? But then again, being a homosexual or a gay based on that definition, can we really say that we are different from that kind of man.Yes we are different, very different. And the Holy Bible is best to distinguish, who is who. Let us read these in context.

Jude 1:

5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord[c] delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Haven’t you noticed that it is a real man, a heterosexual man who is being admonished here? That is, due to sexual immorality and perversion, he might have changed his sexual preference from a woman to a man. Even women who changed her sexual preference from man to woman is also being admonished, including those who changes partners regardless if it’s the opposite or not. So, if you will just read the Holy Bible concerning homosexuals, you will know the real reason why Sodom and Gomorrah, and also the surrounding town where destroyed. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. But is sexual immorality limited only to those who changes sexual preference? No, even those men who wants different women, or women who wants to have sex with different men, also, homosexuals who wants different same sex partners are being admonished by the Holy Bible. Again, it is the sexual immorality and perversion that is a sin.  But God is willing to forgive.

Genesis 18:

20 Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

 22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the LORD. [e] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare [f] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge [g] of all the earth do right?”

 26 The LORD said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

 27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city because of five people?”
      “If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”

 29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”
      He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”

 30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”
      He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

 31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”
      He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”

 32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”
      He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

 33 When the LORD had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

Even nature teaches us that a heterosexual man will not even think of having sex with a man too! I saw once, a man, was asked about this and he had goosebumps and his cheeks got red, he even looked very squeamish. That’s how a heterosexual woman feels too, what more of homosexual man and woman? Why did these things happen? Why was there a change of preference for a partner? But how come these sexual immorality and perversion are being done and experienced by people? Did this happen instantaneously, or was it passed on by our ancestors?

Romans 1:

21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

So, what is my point? My point here is, you should have asked who are being admonished here, the homosexual or the heterosexual? But if you find the truth, would that give you a license to hate the Holy Bible? Or would you accept the reality and learn more of how mistakes are corrected? But then again, can I reason out that a homosexual can do what he likes as long as he have sex with his same gender? Of course not!

Galatians 5:13
You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature ; rather, serve one another in love.

1 John 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

Am I committing sin just for being born as a gay or homosexual individual? Does the bible really condemn gay or homosexual people? Or is just the sinful acts committed?

Luke 7:13
When the Lord saw her, his heart went out to her and he said, “Don’t cry.”

Psalm 31:7
I will be glad and rejoice in your love, for you saw my affliction and knew the anguish of my soul.

If you think the Holy Bible discriminates or condemns gay people as a person, then I will not wonder why you talk like that and insinuate that I would have a change of heart and mind on my understanding of the Holy Bible.

Why would we disregard or will not consider the Holy Bible in an argument? As a person, what can you contribute to an argument? Can you just contribute your experience or your own knowledge in an argument? Perhaps you won’t because subjectivity is a no no in an argument unless you can twist it to show that you are objective and rational or logical. But then again, 6d60, you don’t even have a concrete evidence of your existence here in the internet. But now I learned that you have a blog where you wrote your critique about my post. But we do not argue if you are real or not. It is the teaching that is important. Did it make you less a better person, or did it make you a better person? Did your belief make you who you are now?

Let me just remind you that as a Christian, we believe too that only a man and woman should marry, not both man having the same gender nor both woman. But what about us, gays? We also have feelings like yours but then again, we feel them towards the same sex. It is never a question in the Bible if a gay is person or not. The Bible gives a sense of direction for us. We are people too. We can never change what we feel, we were born this way. But one thing is for sure, be it a man, a woman, or a gay, are we all given the freedom to lust on the same sex or even to the opposite sex? Of course not! But as Christians, we are not taught to use this given freedom to lust on the same sex or even to the opposite sex!

Galatians 5:13 (KJV)
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Galatians 5:13 (NIV)
You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature ; rather, serve one another in love.

One of the privilege of a Christian is to know the Truth, because it will set us free from the eyes of the hypocrites and even the myths that comes along in believing them.

John 8:32
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

If you take time to read my blog, you will learn how the impossible becomes possible for those who love God and His teachings. Probably you do not know God’s teachings and Gospel. Let me give you some.

Matthew 5:
43“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

For the second part, below is another set of comments 6d60 added in another post “thoughts on sex” on the the same blog of Scaramouche.

6d60 said: “Another thing; for next time, when trying to convert non-christians, try not to use endless bible verses based upon foundations we don’t believe in in the first place. It just bores us. Instead, try using logic and reason based upon the secular morality and world we already accept. If one denies the premicies, an arguement is impossible.

Now, I have a challenge for you, Elmantheman. Try to do just that: argue to me, without using Bible verses, why one should believe the Christian faith, and without using the circular reasoning you people are so fond of using that stems from accepting Christianity and Jesus to begin with. Argue me this using only logic and valid reasoning alone. Keep in mind that I am not a hard Athiest, I am an agnostic spiritualist, and accept the possibility of a god. I just see why it should be yours. I am pasting verses here so that you would know that even in the old days, our concerns has been the concern of those people. And the Holy Bible says that people will get more evil because of the lack of teachings. You yourself can observe that as far as religion is concerned, the earth was never out of it, but then again, listen to the teachings and you won’t wonder why people become more crazy and evil.

I am pasting verses here so that you would know that even in the old days, our concerns has been the concern of those people. And the Holy Bible says that people will get more evil because of the lack of teachings. You yourself can observe that as far as religion is concerned, the earth was never out of it, but then again, listen to the teachings and you won’t wonder why people become more crazy and evil.

First of all, I am not commenting to convert anyone of you in that post to be Christians. I was trying to give the readers, even the author, an idea that there is always an answer out there. The fact that the author, Scaramouche, ended her post this way:

“Sex is a holy, religious ritual for me. I’m not going to share it with just anyone. Is that acceptable to you? Am I allowed to be abstinent and believe that sex is a religious ritual as well? Or must I be one or the other? Do I have to choose between my two beliefs?”

Well, no matter how rhetorical her statements are, somehow, have not 6d60 considered that people like me may want to tell people like her and him that yes, those are your beliefs, and for your information, there are people who also share your belief but have learned the answer? They were able to distinguish what belief needs correcting and what belief has a basis. So what if I use a bible verse? Can you prove that the verses are wrong, when in fact nature even teaches us and testifies, even the good values in us, if ever you have one, that those are facts. Take this for consideration:

Ecclesiastes 9:4
Anyone who is among the living has hope —even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!

I learned that by taking a firm stand and having the Holy Bible as a basis is better than arguing without any. The Holy Bible contains instruction and teachings on how you will be able to determine who’s telling a lie! The Holy Bible is enough to learn how to make sense by using biblical logic and analysis. The logic for you (anyone out there) still remains incomplete without God’s wisdom for man. Actually you some people has been accusing that the teachings in the Holy Bible are the reason why we have this kind of world populated by crazy and evil people. That is the main reason why the Holy Bible should be used to answer your their accusations.

6d60 said, ”…And the Holy Bible says that people will get more evil because of the lack of teachings. You yourself can observe that as far as religion is concerned, the earth was never out of it, but then again, listen to the teachings and you won’t wonder why people become more crazy and evil.”

6d60 said, “…And then how do you know what to believe? Not to mention, of course, the bible’s numerous inconsistancies, continuity errors, other things that are grossly immoral, and just plain absurdities (I would point them out, but the work has been done for me at http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/).

I’m sorry this turned into a kind of mini-essay, but I am genuinely scientifically curious as to how a homosexual can be a Christian.”

I said, ”…And the Holy Bible says that people will get more evil because of the lack of teachings. You yourself can observe that as far as religion is concerned, the earth was never out of it, but then again, listen to the teachings and you won’t wonder why people become more crazy and evil.”

Haven’t you noticed that it is the leaders who lead a crazy and evil people, who sometime in their life were innocent and modest?

Isaiah 65:2
All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations-

Romans 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

A true leader of a true Christian group is taught of about the reality in God! Then, members like us who learned before from false teachers were corrected through the Holy Bible. We do not war against the flesh but we fight to correct what has been taught to us by false teachers.

2 Corinthians 10:

3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

So, 6d60, your request below is very ridiculous because when you talk to a real Christian, you cannot separate the Holy Bible when they talk about logic and reason.

6d60 said, “Instead, try using logic and reason based upon the secular morality and world we already accept. If one denies the premicies, an arguement is impossible.”

The Holy Bible actually can show you the real score of the world we live in: in full detail and accuracy of words describing it.

Titus 1:9
He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

What is secular morality by the way? According to the Internet, it is based upon the principle that happiness is the chief end and aim of mankind.

But what is really happiness? Is the real definition of happiness found in the world you live in where happiness is measured by the material things you have, the feeling of success each time you overcome difficulties? Is happiness a feeling when you receive an intimate relationship with the person you truly love, it so happened that you have the same reproductive organ? Is it the feeling of having been married from the only place where same sex marriage is legal? Is it happiness when you had sex with two women at the same time because you love them both, and they love you too? Is happiness is when you won a lottery that made you buy your wife a diamond ring, or when you got two for your other woman because you really love them both and you cannot choose between them, and they agreed to with you regardless? So what if you are intelligent or not? What can you offer me that makes sense when you die?

Luke 12:20
“But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’

Do you really want me to agree with you and tell you that we know what love is on the earth we live in? Do we have the same understanding of what love and happiness is on this materialistic world? Or even on this romantic, full of shit world?

But then again, I cannot disagree with you more because I saw, felt, watched, listened, experienced some of those things you want me to try sharing with you from a secular morality and the world we accepted.

Furthermore, that is a world that cannot co-exist in the future. The earth that you kept on holding on will vanish sooner or later, even some scientists say so. But even them do not agree in everything.

Nevertheless, let me tell you how the Holy Bible agrees with you too on how you feel and what you have been doing. Maybe, you just opted to disagree to let it open your eyes, even your heart to the truth of what your world has become, not because of teachings in the Holy Bible per se but because it was used by false teachers whom I mentioned from the upper part of this post.

2 Peter 3:

15Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

You may want to know how the Holy Bible defines what kind of world are the Christians like me, and even you share.

1 Peter 4:

1Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin.

2As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.

3For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.

4They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you.

5But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

6For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

As a Christian, we learned that we cannot set aside the Holy Bible. We say, “evil,we have enough of you! Sin, we are no longer your slaves!

Colossians 3:12
Therefore, as God‘s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.

Especially, we say, “Nature, we realized and accept now what we are, and the limitation and weakness we have. God, thank you for letting us know how precious we are to you that you even gave your Son, Jesus Christ to us, that he even died on the cross for us, Christians, and those concerned individuals.

1 Corinthians 13:1

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

Even if God has given everything He have to His Son, He still allowed His only Son to suffer. What kind of love is that?

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

A person who lives by the rules of the world will never know this kind of love. But, they still have the time to learn it.

Ecclesiastes 9:4
Anyone who is among the living has hope —even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!

Galatians 6:6Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

tc-56964-mainicon.jpg

The “Interactive Podcast” of Brother Eli Soriano on talkshoe.com is currently accessible to all and you can finally have the chance to experience listening, chatting, and talking to Brother Eli, LIVE!!! –  this is in connection to your spiritual concerns and questions. We hope that you’ll share this moment with your friends and love ones and witness a pod-show of the rising preacher of our time.

For more information please visit esoriano.wordpress.com or visit directly to talkshoe.com

First podcast started last 08October 9am Philippine time while 07October 9m New York US time.

There are downloadable recorded copy of the podcasts and access for those who missed them!

 

A Reference

Can a Homosexual Make it to Heaven?

Biblically Addressing the Concerns of a Sexually Addicted Reader

The harmonious relationship of Master and servant.

Ignorant of his own ignorance

From a Sinner’s Guide to the Analysis of a Purpose Driven life… and more!

The Power of Christianity is not by Force but by Peace

Lust… Money… Idol Worship… and More!

The Biblical Difference Between a Homosexual and a Sodomite

 

Brother Eliseo F. Soriano, also known as Brother Eli, whenever he preaches, reads the Bible. Questions are answered by the Bible (See video below).

 

(One of the audience was Jonathan Hudson of Los Angeles, California who asked Brother Eli, “Can God commit sin?” Bro. Eli answered his question not from his own capacity, but from biblical verses that was inspired by the Holy Spirit of God)

His work and manner of preaching fits another prophecy:

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Though I am nothing, even the lowest and weakest part of the Church of God, let me give you some more verses of the Holy Bible. Jesus said in Luke 21:32-36,

I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap.

For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth.

Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.

Discernment is very important to be wise:

Deuteronomy 32:

26 I said I would scatter them
and blot out their memory from mankind,

27 but I dreaded the taunt of the enemy,
lest the adversary misunderstand
and say, ‘Our hand has triumphed;
the LORD has not done all this.’ “

28 They are a nation without sense,
there is no discernment in them
.

29 If only they were wise and would understand this and discern what their end will be!

30 How could one man chase a thousand,
or two put ten thousand to flight,
unless their Rock had sold them,
unless the LORD had given them up?

31 For their rock is not like our Rock,
as even our enemies concede.

Genesis 19: 

 1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”
      “No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”

 3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

 6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

 9Get out of our way,” they replied. And they said, “This fellow came here as an alien, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

 10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.

 12 The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.”

Genesis 19:

21 He said to him, “Very well, I will grant this request too; I will not overthrow the town you speak of. 22 But flee there quickly, because I cannot do anything until you reach it.” (That is why the town was called Zoar. [f] )  23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lot’s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.   29 So when God destroyed the cities of the plain, he remembered Abraham, and he brought Lot out of the catastrophe that overthrew the cities where Lot had lived. 

  1. Scaramouche
    February 28, 2008 at 6:54 am

    Please, I beg you, leave me out of it. 6d60’s site is http://6d60.wordpress.com. Go there. Leave me out of it pleeease.

  2. 6d60
    February 28, 2008 at 3:15 pm
  3. November 3, 2008 at 2:38 am

    To the author of http://6d60.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/logic-and-religion-2/

    It seemed that one post from you is not enough to rebuild your stand and arguments against this house. And finding out that your second post, even the first one block me from answering leaves me no choice but to answer you from my own blog’s comments area. Do you block me from your blog or you just do not allow readers to comment on your arguments? What a way to conveniently debate and argue!

    You forgot to mention or ignored the fact that most of your arguments about homosexuality and the Holy Bible were crushed specifically by the Holy Bible itself. Your arguments are all plain, basic arguments of individuals who tried to make the bible devoid of truth and reality.

    Let me just quote you and let us see how you mastered hypocrisy: “One thing I do know is that thinking one is superior only leads to hatred. And than can never be a good thing if we want to live in a peaceful world.”

    No, I can not see how useful and truthful the Bible is. I know you believe it to be truthful, however, and I respect that. However, naming a subject and then finding a bible verse that vaguely talks about it does not imply truthfulness. You must understand that although you believe it to be true, I do not.

    If you really are truthful to your readers, you might as well enable a link from my post which you are tackling in your post and allow yours truly access to your comments area so we can discuss further. You are curious just as you said. But don’t make it too obvious that your statements are plain rhetorics.

    6d60 said, “…Oh, and by the way, elmantheman, I’m a guy, just so you know. I am curious, however, how one is to be both gay and Christian. For it says in Leviticus, and I quote, “Homosexual acts are an abomination to God.” -18:22. And, of course, “If a man has sex with another man, kill them both.” 20:13.

    Now I of course find that extremely offenseive and must resist the urge to burn the copy of the Bible I just referred to. And I’m sure this must offend you, as a homosexual, at least as much, if not more than it does me. So tell me, how do you still keep a Christian faith? Do you just conveinently ignore that part? I mean, some of the Bible is open to interperitation, but there’s pretty much no way you could interperit that differently.

    So if you do ignore those parts of the Bible, does that not shake the entire foundations of the Christian faith? If you know in your heart that that part isn’t right, don’t you start thinking some of, if not all the rest of it might not be right either? And then how do you know what to believe? Not to mention, of course, the bible’s numerous inconsistancies, continuity errors, other things that are grossly immoral, and just plain absurdities (I would point them out, but the work has been done for me at http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/).

    I’m sorry this turned into a kind of mini-essay, but I am genuinely scientifically curious as to how a homosexual can be a Christian.”

    Right, you can deliver your essays, rhetorics, and rebuildings but it is blatant that you are not genuinely scientifically curious to know the answers. You thought I was offended by how you introduced me in your posts, referring to me as a homosexual, insinuating how being one can make me disregard the Holy Bible.

    One thing is for sure, you love scaramouche that you are prepared to accept what that woman prefers and believes in and to defend her beliefs. But since you thought that the Holy Bible is totally against her, without studying it with a knowledgeable person, you started believing to your opinion and invention and make a logic out of it. For example, to quote you again:

    No, I can not see how useful and truthful the Bible is. I know you believe it to be truthful, however, and I respect that. However, naming a subject and then finding a bible verse that vaguely talks about it does not imply truthfulness. You must understand that although you believe it to be true, I do not.

    When that is your belief, who will believe your arguments? Who will believe you, your same feathers?

    As for myself, I am ready to fight myself, my own pride and ego, I am willing to let go of my belief just so the truth remains the truth. And the clash here, you would not believe the Holy Bible, and in fact you believe that you are most likely wrong in many things?

    Colossians 2:6-8

    So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

    See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

    Let me just re-post here my previous reply to you:

    But then again, if you felt that the misquotes I’ve done which you feel imputed on you, well read them again. Maybe those are not misquotes most especially not a reference to you, but to those who are concerned.

    1 Thessalonians 2:3
    For the appeal we make does not spring from error or impure motives, nor are we trying to trick you.

    You can take away what I said even the Title of the Books, the Chapters, and the verses, just let the scripture remain from those verses, the messages remains true.

    I am leaving my link here. Thanks for the space!

    https://elmantheman.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/how-a-homosexual-can-be-a-christian/

  4. January 3, 2009 at 3:42 am

    Hi Author of http://6d60.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/logic-and-religion/

    I typed this one to your 1st and second post. I had a few errors committed and I just realized now what had happened between us.

    I was caught between slow internet settings as I usually save my posts as I type them to avoid the internet hanging up and my post disappearing.

    My error was saving my post as I type it down, saving, eventually editing it without realizing that you yourself was reading my post already. I have just found out the mistake when someone told me about it from newsvine.com.

    You know, whenever I save my post, the format that I used for wordpress sometimes change. I posted a quote from me and then it attached to your quote that I pasted. When I edited it, maybe, I mistook it as your own quote. Again, I am editing my posts, save, then read, and then go back to edit options to correct some errors.

    Maybe we, have differences in way of posting what we type. But then again, it is not an excuse for me. For this I am very sorry, that the quote that I made has offended you because it becomes as you wrote it.

    And I will not delete what you wanted me to delete because I want people to read my blog as something that is assuring that the mistakes you read there in my blog and the corrections you wrote in your own blog would be transparent.

    We may have different views in logic and religion, but we are still people who can be friends in terms of good works. I hope as a friend, you will first look at where people are coming from, it is not the person, it is the teachings yours truly and my presiding minister is trying to inform people. Christianity becomes a taboo from other people because those who taught it and lived by it did not behave as a true Christian, you will see hypocrisy. And to generalize that all Christians are like this is not logical. Maybe you can try to research more about us, not because I just say so, but because your logic will tell you that it makes sense.

    I committed my mistakes and I hope you forgive me for that.

    What I meant with that quotation is that if you want to learn the teachings of God, you should learn the right teachings. Some Pastors or Priests uses the same verses, quoting from the Bible, but when they start to give their sermon, they give their own opinions opposite what they read. The quotations from the bible become a new teaching the way they say them. And you will not wonder why people becomes more evil because of the new teachings. And if you will just study the unadulterated teachings, you will see that logic and religion in the HOLY Bible is interrelated.

    James 1:27
    Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

    1 Timothy 5:4
    But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God.

  5. June 20, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    Still, there’s no response?

  1. February 28, 2008 at 2:46 pm

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